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Wiring question for Rokuhan layout

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10 years 3 months ago - 10 years 3 months ago #13275 by seldredg
Wiring question for Rokuhan layout was created by seldredg
First, the credits. This a layout I got from David K Smith's website and redrew for Rokuhan track, with the intent to do this or whatever layout I do next with DCC (with a size limitation of about 46x24).

In playing with it, I added the orange section in the center, thinking it would allow me to use the whole interior as a yard if I chose, and provide a way to turn locomotives around, because combined with the light blue track, it creates a reverse loop. My thought was to detail the connector as an abandoned track.

Could this reverse loop actually be created, given the connections to the rest of the layout via turnouts?

Also, any reccomendations for track planning books for small/medium layouts? I'm reading John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" now.


ScottE
La Honda, CA
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10 years 3 months ago - 10 years 3 months ago #13276 by garthah
Replied by garthah on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
If you are choosing to use dcc then there are several appliances for DCC control of such a situation and will automatically handle the DCC signal polarity for you. In DCC parlance the device is called a frog Juicer and will automatically change the polarity provided it is wired according to the instructions.

Since you are using Rokuhan track there is a solution pure DC also but it is not automatic. Reverse loop is also possible just using the power routing turnouts from Rokuhan but that is more info than you need if you are DCC.

cheerz Garth

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10 years 3 months ago #13277 by seldredg
Replied by seldredg on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Juicers are popular in California, but I hadn't heard of a frog juicer. Actually I read about them in something about model railroading, but didn't understand enough to know exactly why it was needed. I'll get there.

I knew the Rokuhan switches were power routing and that there was reverse loop switch coming, but I still didn't know if it would work along with the other connections.

Thanks, Scott

ScottE
La Honda, CA

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10 years 3 months ago #13284 by garthah
Replied by garthah on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
If you are going DCC you will need to convert your Rokuhan power routing turnouts to non power routing as shown in Rokuhan video or wait for newest version of L110 turnout in October which can be changed by moving two screws to an alternate location on the back plate. to use power routing turnouts you will need to put in insulators any time two frogs face each other as you could depending on how you operate your turnouts create a dead short. you will need more than 2 track feeds. DCC works best with non power routing turnouts (power everywhere) In the meantime read about using power routing and non power routing
turnouts with DCC. then also consider placing a faster reacting short circuit detector or indicator. some times the factory setting on you main cab is set too high for Z and a derail at a turnout can damage both the turnout and the engine. there are some who are quite happy operating DCC track voltage at 15vac and 3 to 5 amps, but I am not one of them. I operate at 10.5vac and an .75 amp When I started using DCC I was in N-scale so I did use the 13 - 15 vac standard 3 or 5 amp supplies, abut after working with Z I changed and the nice part is most of my n-scale stuff works fine on the lower values as well. I have a couple power hogs with sound that need the full 15vac for the sound.

cheerz Garth

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10 years 3 months ago #13285 by Socalz44
Replied by Socalz44 on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
I'm the last one to give electrical advice, but I am curious about the 'orange' track. Just thinking about whether it is a necessary option to join all the sidings together that way? Seems like the loco is just see-sawing back and forth and not going anywhere, if that makes sense. I guess I'm saying I would leave that section out. Jim

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10 years 3 months ago #13286 by seldredg
Replied by seldredg on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
It may be that I can create the control I want/need on a layout like this with DC controllers and circuits. I'm going to read about DC and DCC wiring. I did wonder about the ability to create shorts with power routing switches with this laytout. Right now I can run two trains on all track with a rail circuit and catenary circuit. Wanted to maintain that flexibility, but may not be necessary.

ScottE
La Honda, CA

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10 years 3 months ago - 10 years 3 months ago #13287 by seldredg
Replied by seldredg on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
The orange track is an afterthought/experiment. By connecting all the interior track, I thought it would allow me to treat the inside of the layout as a large yard instead of small yard and spurs accessed from a main. The inside loop can function as an A/D track. Another way to play. It would also allow me to perform a large three-point turn, so to speak, to turn locomotives around without having to pick them up and put them down again. I would do the orange track as abandoned-looking track with weeds and mostly hidden by trees to keep the two sides of layout visually separate (there's a stream/gulley the divides the layout).

I've redone the orange section a few times using the smallere turnouts so that it joins the left and right sides leaving more room for cars above/below the switches.

When I get there, I'll lay out real track and see what will work in the real Z world. If I can figure out the Surveyor in Trains, I may build it there.

ScottE
La Honda, CA

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10 years 3 months ago #13289 by Socalz44
Replied by Socalz44 on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Yes, I realized that the orange track allowed for turning of the loco. If you are running steam I might be getting on board. If diesels no. Diesel locos run 'back and forth' all the time. What kind of scenery are you planning? Jim

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10 years 3 months ago #13290 by seldredg
Replied by seldredg on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Good point about the locomotives. Right now I have an AZL GP30, Marklin 8811 and Tenshodo C62 that would use the inner tracks. Besides teh GP30, the 8811 will make a nice switcher because it's short and runs really well (are there American Z switchers available? And can you change Marklin couplers to MTL?). The yard may see use as a passenger yard also, for the C62 and 8811, which could also set up cars for a GG1 running on the outside loops.

Scenery is envisioned as passenger station or just platform at the top, industries upper left and lower right (will pick them and build those first, which will affect the track layout I'm sure). Upper right corner rises from tracks, and area to the inside of the there forms a slight depression to create sense of elevation change and while keeping the track flat. A gulley/stream cuts through the layout diagnally from upper left to lower right with some trees and vegetation to divide the layout.

The orange section feels iffy but it would be easy to try (AnyRail is sometimes too easy to use). While it may not work, I like the idea of having an abandoned track (there are several near me along the coast). I have a Marklin track planning set, so I may build a model of the model to see what it looks like in 3D.

ScottE
La Honda, CA

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10 years 3 months ago #13301 by Socalz44
Replied by Socalz44 on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Please remember that this is your layout not mine. I'm merely stating an opinion and if you want the orange track by all means keep it. First rule is that this is yours and if it makes you happy no problem. This is what model railroading is all about. Good luck. Jim

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10 years 3 months ago #13302 by Zcratchman_Joe
Replied by Zcratchman_Joe on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
I agree... it's yours to do what pleases you with it. All I will say that by adding that orange track, it sure adds a lot of cool action to the layout.

Joe

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10 years 3 months ago #13317 by jrb
Replied by jrb on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
I like the orange track!

Slight concern is that only Locos can use it – maybe w/a car or two?

What track planning s/w did you use?

I wanted to have a reversing on my coffee table layout – but wanted over and under sorta helix more. With only 27” x 27” could do much more.







I know it's a simple layout; but, for grins & giggles I drew my Coffee Table layout up in AnyRail, then imported it into TrainPlayer -- all done for free. And kind of fun too!













Noticed some neat yards in one of the TP samples – maybe you’d like to play w/a few trains w/your track plan?



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10 years 3 months ago #13319 by seldredg
Replied by seldredg on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
I used AnyRail. I also played with RailModeller on the Mac because my Mac is newer and faster than my old PC laptop, but the RailModeller UI doesn't work very well. Simple dragging and dropping is a drag. It does export to a free program like Trainplayer that does 3D, so I may yet experiment.

I saw what you noticed about the orange section and redid it so it should be able to handle a loco and two cars.

And I have a demo version of Trainplayer to try my layout on. I'm working on a 50x26 version of a layout that is very similar to the small one you posted--two mainlines for part of the layout with one breaking off to become a twice around in the center. I want to see if I can add topographic elevation lines like the on the layout you posted.

ScottE
La Honda, CA

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10 years 3 months ago - 10 years 3 months ago #13320 by jrb
Replied by jrb on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Cool!

The two files here are really AnyRail files -- renamed it .txt & .doc to see if they could be posted/shared here.

If it works seldredg can you post your lates .any here by doing the same?

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10 years 3 months ago #13321 by jrb
Replied by jrb on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Guess it didn't work; has in other forums -- too bad .any etc. can't be uploaded.

e-mail would work.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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10 years 3 months ago #13322 by seldredg
Replied by seldredg on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
I'll try posting here, and send you the AnyRail files.

Oh, I see that .any files aren't accepted. I'll send the files and jpegs in case yo can't read the files (if yo uhave the demo version, you may not be able to).

ScottE
La Honda, CA

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10 years 3 months ago #13324 by stonysmith
Replied by stonysmith on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Guys.. put the two ANY files inside of a ZIP file.. then you should be able to upload that here.

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10 years 3 months ago #13325 by jrb
Replied by jrb on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Hate to zip, or rar -- whatever.

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10 years 3 months ago #13326 by seldredg
Replied by seldredg on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
Thanks, Stony. I'll remember that forthe future. I emailed the .any files this time. Scott

ScottE
La Honda, CA

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10 years 3 months ago #13331 by jrb
Replied by jrb on topic Re: Wiring question for Rokuhan layout
FUN!



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