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TOPIC: Briefcase layout 2

Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10634

  • ryuen
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Hi all,

It's been a few years since I made my first Z scale briefcase, a simple oval, and I'm planning on creating a new, more visually interesting one but I've run into a problem with the trackplan.

I was planning on basing the layout on the Noch 'Tannheim' briefcase layout, I wanted to keep the loop but leave out the turnout.

The trackplan for which I was able to freely download on the Noch website:
(link: www.noch.de/en/aktuelles_service/downloads/gleisplaene.php#grossanlagen)



Then in Anyrail I started my trackplan but ran into an inconsistency with the Noch plan even when I was using the same radius turns and lenghts of straight track:



As you can see the circuit is broken. Now I'm wondering if this is actually feasible to make a layout with this trackpan?

Any input on how to proceed would be most appreciated, I'll have to buy all track anyway as I don't have any of the 145mm turn sections left over (so wasn't able to do a quick mockup to see if I could make it fit some way or other)
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10635

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The Noch track plan is a very standard plan that I have seen in use multitudes of time. IT does work. Pretty much most of the Noch briefcase layouts use this plan. I can't speak for Anyrail, but do they have the true Marklin track sections listed? If so, try that. Also, remember, there are always fudge factors which don't translate into the rigid track plan software. If you would connect the the broken loop, the plan would be perfect, but the track may not be 'square' to the grid. But it will work. I would not get too hung up by this. There is always room to play when it comes to laying track.

Rob
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10636

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Rob,

thank you for the quick and informative reply.
The Anyrail program does have the Marklin track parts and it was these I was using.

I'll go out and buy some track next week and try it out, as you say the fudge factors and elevation/height differences probably will make it work.

Thanks again,
Kurt
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10637

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Kurt,

I think you will see you will be good one you have the track in hand. If I remember correctly, Noch does a bit of manipulation to get the track to fit in their briefcases. But it is a nice simple track plan. I like the over/under approach of the plan.

Rob
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10638

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Kurt,
There is something funny with the Noch plan you have. If you start at the 8506 track and go clockwise, you go through a half circle of 8510 track. If you go counter-clockwise from 8506, you also have a half circle of 8510 track. This requires that the bottoms of the two half circles line up and the left half circle connect to the 8565!
I haven't done the math but I think you'll find if you substitute two of the 8520 curves in the top of the right hand side it will all fit.
Good luck with the layout.
Mark
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10639

I believe they have “made the image fit” looking the way it does, or they have the pieces mislabeled. If one were to use eight 8510’s, as they have in the center, the pieces would make a complete circle and not be out of line at the top to connect with another track. You might also notice that they have the numbers for an 8991 piece sitting there with no track next to it (it wouldn’t fit anyway).

There is no way this layout would work as they have pictured and substituting the 8520's as Mark suggested does not work.

I have created two layouts with Anyrail v.4 for your amusement.

The first one is very similar to what they had in mind in the diagram, however if you look at the top of the layout, it would NOT work as they had intended. The tracks overlap to the point one could not do the over/under the way the Tannheim is displayed (see 1st image). This was done by moving the piece of 8504 from the bottom (right) to the right side of the curve (see 2nd image).

The second layout is the one I prefer. It uses seventeen (17) 8510 curves, seven (7) 8504 of the short pieces, just one (1) 8500, and of course the 8565 left turnout. And there should be room for a bumper at the end of the siding (see 3rd image).

Hope this helps.
Tannheim_Z_Scale_Briefcase_Layout.jpg
Tannheim_copy_1.jpg
Tannheim_copy_2.jpg
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10643

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Joe... he mentioned that he does not want to use the turn-out and siding.
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10644

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Joe & Mark,

Thank you for your input, as I menioned I still need to go out and get some track so I will take your suggestions in mind and also try those in a quick mockup to see which would end up the best for my briefcase.

I'll indeed not be using the siding as I feel it would make it 'too busy' and would prefer using the space for some landscaping.

This little layout will take a quite a while to complete as I plan on doing the best landscaping job I can... I'll probably even bust out the toothpicks again to make a log cabin or two ;)

Thanks again,
Kurt
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10645

TechRep wrote:
Joe... he mentioned that he does not want to use the turn-out and siding.
Alex, I wanted to show how the original plan might have actually been designed had it not taken the artistic liberties it did.

To do away with the turnout and siding, in my second layout simply replace the turnout with a piece of 8500 to keep it the same. Actually without a turnout involved, instead of 8500's, shorter pieces could be used, but it wouldn't leave very much room for a nice mountain or scenery.

Joe
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10647

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Kurt,
I'll be heading back home today to my toys, so now that you've piqued my interest, I'll have an opportunity to lay some track and see how it comes out. My earlier comment was based on your layout, which seems to be short in both the X and Y direction by about 25-30mm if I read your drawing right. I agree with Rob that a lot of layouts don't quite fit in the CAD software because of tugging and twisting the track from the specific radius. But 25mm seems to be a lot for such a small layout.
Good luck on the log cabins. I had a devil of a time finding round toothpicks the last time I looked. I had to settle for the cocktail tootpicks (with the colorful plastic stuff at the end).
Mark
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10678

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Well I passed by my (not so local) LHS today and got me some track, unfortunately they didn't have enough of the curved pieces in store but they ordered me the rest.

From what I did get I was able to do a partly quick mockup and the Noch trackplan does seem to work with a bit of coaxing so I'm glad that is settled.

Since I can't really start without all the track and it may be 2 weeks before I get the rest I figured I'd get some treemaking out of the way in the meantime.
To be honest the trees I purchased for the first layout were a bit of a disappointment, too coarse and regular and to be honest too expensive for what you get.

I checked the excellent youtube video on how to make Loren style trees, I believe these will look better and are cheaper when selfmade (not to mention the end result will be more fullfilling)

Unfortunately the only chenille readily available are stems, the thickest of which are 16mm, which may be a bit on the thin side.
Oh well, I guess there are alternatives I can use but I'll welcome any suggestion any of you might have.

I've also decided to scratch build a little bridge for the layout in favor of buying one, looks like I'll have my work cut out on this one :D

Once I get building I'll provide pictures of my second foray in empire building for your viewing pleasure offcourse ;)

regards,
Kurt
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10681

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Hi Kurt,

I purchase Chenille bumps from Boleks Craft Supply... www.bolekscrafts.com/

Email address is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or call them at 1 800 743 2723

Buy the hank of bumps--DJ1407 color 060 emerald These are the 5" bumps which give you the most material to work with. The saying 'they don't make em like they used to' is very true in the case of chenille. I first bought a couple of hanks from an ebay vendor back about 2006 and they were a lot better than the ones made today, but Bolek's seems to be the only place to purchase them any more.

Cost will be $9.20 per 18 yard hank and a $9.00 S&H charge. This one hank will make hundreds of trees for you so the price is good.

Go forth and grow trees,
Loren
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10689

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Hi Loren,

thanks for the link, they do seem to be only place online that has these and I've mailed them to ask if they ship to Belgium and if so at wat cost.

I've been looking online for some more hours yesterday and today and came up with no suppliers this side of the pond but I did find a supplier in the UK who stocks 25 & 38mm chenille pom poms.
I think the 38mm ones would probably work as an alternative should Boleks not work out for me as judging from the photes I would put their bumps at about 1.5 inch in diameter?

regards,
Kurt
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10695

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Kurt,

The 5" bumps have a wide area of about 1 at most. The shorter end material can be used, but with limited success. Ive found it can only be used for small trees.

I don't think Bolek's will ship overseas, but may be wrong. If they do not, I would be glad to secure them for you and ship to you. It would cost you the extra postage to your address, but at least you would be able to get them if Bolek is the only place you can find that carries them.

The pom poms sound interesting. Do you have a link that I could look at to see if they would be suitable? You will find that most likely you won't go over about 4" or 100mm in tree height as they will tend to dwarf your trains. Certainly taller trees are prototypical but somehow they just don't look good because of their height.

Best to you,
Loren
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10696

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Loren,

this is the link to the 25mm ones: www.lainesworld.co.uk/L/pompom/KC1127092527.html

The image is rather low resolution I'm afraid and I did notice they use the same image for all sizes, from 5mm to 38mm so it's hard to judge what size is actually pictured.

regards,
Kurt
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10697

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Thanks Kurt,
I don't think those will work as it does not appear they have fibers that can be removed as in the bumps.

I'm always on the lookout for a new type material that will work in place of the Chenille. It would be nice not to have to unwind the bumps in order to access the fibers.

Loren
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10698

tealplanes wrote:
Certainly taller trees are prototypical but somehow they just don't look good because of their height.

Loren, I think the reason taller, more prototypical height trees don't look right, is because we humans are used to looking at them (tall trees) from ground level. It seems we only pay attention to a trees height when it is farther away (hold out our fingers and pinch them and they seem to be only inches in height). When the trees are close to us, we look at the separate parts of a tree... the bark, the trunk, the branches, the leaves, and never really notice the height unless we have a reason to look up at their majesty (such as a tall redwood giving us reason to crane our necks to actually look way UP there).

If you ever get the chance to watch a video shot from a helicopter or plane of a train going through some tall trees... the trains look very small in comparison. But, again, we humans normally see trees differently and our eyes expect much smaller on our layouts... at least IMHO.

Joe
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10699

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Right on all counts Joe. Me thinks sometimes we look at our hobby with too narrow a vision.......or is that through a magnifying glass?

Gotta think outside the zmall way we look at things.

BTW, MTL failed to pull the 40' nests so I still haven't gotten your order completed yet. All in good time my man, all in good time.

Of course it better be sooner than later or I'll be too old to recall why I ordered them :laugh:

Loren
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 6 months ago #10756

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Today I received confirmation from Boleks that they shipped the bumps, it may be a while before I receive them but there will be plenty to do before I can add trees to the layout anyway.

The track is still on order as well but I expect this next week sometime.

In the meanwhile I've picked up a few things:
-an x-acto like hobby knife, sharper and more precise than the cutter type I tended to use
-a cheap foamcutter which should speed up the general shaping process
-1.5mm modeller cardboard to built a bridge from and maybe I'll find some other uses for the material as well
-1mm thick adhesive cork for roadbed and soundproofing

Finding my late dads dremel rotary tool in the tool shed when I visited mom last week was a good find as well, no doubt that will come in handy.. now if I only I can find his old soldering iron too, or at least the fine tips he had as opposed to mine (better suited to plumbing than fine work)

I've also been doing a few trials for tunnel portals from old scrap bits of foam I had, both to amuse myself and get used to the material and tools again.

I take it this must be the most fun phase of the entire process, that feeling of anticipation and the eagerness to start work on it :D
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Re: Briefcase layout 2 3 years 4 months ago #10951

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Well, it's been a while since I first announced the plan for a new briefcase and the actual post with some actual work being done.

Alas, due to a rather unfortunate aquatic emergency 2 weeks ago (aquarium glass broke) that required my attention and a need to develop certain new skills (repairing the thing) I've only been able to start actual work on the layout this weekend.

I've uploaded 2 images so far

First up, a little image for Loren whom asked me to "go forth and grow trees":
First trees
Those are the actual first trees I made, although ground cover will still need to be applied and I have a nagging feeling some extra trimming will be in order as well.

The second image shows the inclines and how the track will be laid as well as the track itself so you get a view how it will have to be manipulated to fit.
Track position & inclines
In permanent marker are the rough outlines of how the main landscape elements will be arranged.
The lake I'm not sure about yet if I'll do it or not, I'll be using several materials and techniques for the first time (and by several I mean nearly all of them) and I'm afraid I'll bite off more than I can chew.

That's it so far, I have tested the inclines and all my locos will make the grades, which was my first big worry. Now that I know they will run I will start the rough landscape work.
I have elected to use spray on foam for this which is a first of using this particular material.
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