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Z New NZT product pictures

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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #13937 by garthah
Z New NZT product pictures was created by garthah
I just uploaded some photos of new PWM battery operated hand controller from David K Smith and soon to be available from Stonebridge Models.

We have been beta testing the device from David and find it fits the hand nicely and is easily handled with either left or right hand with all controls accessed by thumb. The track power lead leaves the controller from the bottom of the box not the top. A very bright Green LED lights up on top of unit when the track power is on. There is a true zero power position on speed control. The unit uses a standard 9v battery and the unit is bullet proof. You can short the two track leads together - in fact, you can solder them together and the unit will not blow up, burn up, self destruct, but the battery will drain down quickly and the battery will get a bit warm.

Power is smooth from zero to 9 volts and engines accelerate nicely. Because of the PWM nature of the output voltage, engines tend to be synchronized on speed when Mu'd. There is a sound we traditionally avoid with Z scale but it does not seem to be dangerous to my engines. It is a whine as they start up and diminishes as the speed increases. I was really impressed with smooth operation of my F7a and F7b pair in CN sargent stripes with an LED headlight module installed. I modified the B shell to fit over standard A unit power chassis. The coffee grinder noise is still there at full throttle, but they were smooth in acceleration and deceleration. Of course, the other Micro Trains units were smooth as one has come to expect using other controllers. I powered up the 4 wheel power units from Lajos and Searails as well as several of my Nn3 steam engines with Faulhaber motors and flywheels and all were very smooth running. Also powered up a couple of Marklin engines - the Pacific and Mikado with no problems. At the price announced there is no reason why all Z scalers could not afford at least one of these devices. My test box did not have any graphics on it and not sure if the final production model will have any graphics on it, but at least I knew what was what without the words. I even modified mine with a Rokuhan plug an play cable so I can plug into Rokuhan track and do not need to solder any connections. I will have my copy at Grand Rapids for those interested is trying the unit. See me at Mr Dave's Golden Black Hawk and Central City layout.

cheers Garth


cheerz Garth
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11 years 9 months ago #13938 by markm
Replied by markm on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures
Garth,
Thanks for the report.
I've been characterizing a similiar product (Snail) with similiar results. The whine is more of a function of the motor you're running, than the unit. Comparing to my old Marklin Blue throttle, I could find no significant difference with the PWM in loco performance or power consumption. Other than the whine, I can find no reason not to use PWM.
Let me throw out a couple of questions:

- What does useful battery life look like?

- Does the unit really need to be that small?

- Could we get this like a Prius plug-in? Run on battery (Alkaline or NiMh), run from wall wart, and recharge the battery if it's rechargable.

Mark

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11 years 9 months ago #13939 by garthah
Replied by garthah on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures
The whine may change in tone and pitch from motor to motor but it is always there due to frequency of PWM in this case.

Yes you could remove the contents and mount them elsewhere but with a 9 v battery you are not going to get much smaller and I would not want to go smaller as it fits my hand perfectly as it stands. NZT plans a dual control controller to handle two trains so yes it can go bigger. There is no recharging circuit in the device so if you use Nicads you will need to pull them for recharging on install a charger with the contents of this box in you briefcase layout. As to whether it will ever come with built in charger or not I could not say. It would not be to hard to fit a socket to plus a wall wart into. I won't know until after Grand Rapids what battery life is like but I suspect from the testing I Have done it will power at least one Geep for 8 hours of a show and if left to recover over night might even make it through the second day to tear down.

cheers Garth

cheerz Garth

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11 years 9 months ago #13940 by stonysmith
Replied by stonysmith on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures

markm wrote: Run on battery (Alkaline or NiMh), and recharge the battery if it's rechargable.


Sorry, but you can't have both.

Standard batteries are not chemically designed to be recharged. Their chemical reaction is basically a one-way function. And.. alkaline batteries have a nasty habit of tending to explode when recharged. It's (partly) possible, but only with special equipment that is different than a normal recharger.

You could have a unit that recharges batteries designed to be recharged, or an expensive unit that recharges alkalines. You can't have "one size that fits all".

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11 years 9 months ago #13941 by Zcratchman_Joe
Replied by Zcratchman_Joe on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures

markm wrote: Run on battery (Alkaline or NiMh), run from wall wart, and recharge the battery if it's rechargable.


The optimum would be to have the unit use NiMh (only) with the option of a Radio Shack Wal-Wart to both operate the unit and charge the batteries. This of course forces the price higher and defeats David’s course of undercutting others that sell similar devices.

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11 years 9 months ago #13944 by rvn2001
Replied by rvn2001 on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures
How many "slightly" different models do we need of these things?????????

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11 years 9 months ago #13945 by David K. Smith
Replied by David K. Smith on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures

rvn2001 wrote: How many "slightly" different models do we need of these things?????????


That's a fair question. However... up to now, as far as I'm aware, there are only two battery-powered throttles on the market. One is the Rokuhan unit, but it is not designed to be handheld. The rest are all identical, made by the same company, Medvend. You've seen them as "Snail" and "eZ-throttle" and "ZThek." Pop any of them open and you'll find the same guts.

For this unit, I set out not to make a "me too" clone, but instead to develop something new and different, even if it superficially resembles competitive products, with several carefully-designed features to distinguish it from the rest:

Controls are on the front, arranged for easy one-hand operation using either hand.

The production units will have a snap-off battery compartment lid so you don't have to dismantle the thing to replace the battery. And the battery clip is solid and robust.

A pilot light indicates power is on, because even if a locomotive isn't running, the unit will drain power. With the toggle in the center position, the battery is disconnected from the circuit.

The unit is rated for 8 Amps. It is also short-circuit-proof, as Garth indicated, so it needs no overload circuit or light.

The wires emerge from the bottom, making it less awkward to handle. You can even mount it on your layout's fascia with Velcro. Locate it just above the edge of the layout, and you'll be able to see the top-mounted pilot light from almost anyplace.

You can be "greener" about batteries in one of two ways: you can buy rechargeable 9V batteries (they are rare and costly, but available), or you can use a 9V wall wart with a standard battery clip to connect to the unit. These are also a little hard to find, but it's easy to make your own just by replacing the existing connector with a battery clip (remembering to reverse the polarity of the clip in order for it to work right).

And finally, the asking price simply cannot be beat.

So, do you still think it is only "slightly" different from the rest? If so, then you can simply ignore it and not buy any. In my mind there is always room for improvement in virtually any product; that's called competition, a byproduct of a free market.

I haven't even started on the first production run (I was waiting until Garth gave it a thumbs-up) and I've already had many suggestions for new features. Some of them may appear in a different model down the road a ways; however, the fact of the matter is, if I added any more features or made any design changes, it could no longer be sold at the current MSRP.

The first batch will likely be ready end of July/early August, and they will be sold exclusively by Stonebridge Models; they will even bear the original SBM throttle name: eZ-throttle. And, as mentioned elsewhere, a twin version is in development that will allow you to operate two independent trains from one handheld unit.

By the way, I must express my deep appreciation to Garth for a thorough shakedown and report.

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11 years 9 months ago #13946 by Zcratchman_Joe
Replied by Zcratchman_Joe on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures

David K. Smith wrote: For this unit, I set out not to make a "me too" clone, but instead to develop something new and different,...


Don't quote me on this but speaking of all of the clones out there... from what I understand, these are all direct rip-offs of Lajos original controller. There’s a big difference between what you are doing and what others have done… taking the bread out of the mouth of a fellow railroad enthusiast just to make a buck.

What you have done, after all, is just what made America great... Build a better mousetrap...

But in this case, build a better mousetrap... but for less!

On a side note, I am truly surprised at the thought process of people these days. I am in the middle of researching an idea for a product very similar to one someone in another country is producing. When asking fellow model railroaders for help on the subject, I have been asked, “Why don’t you just buy one of theirs and copy it?” My reaction is always the same… because that is their design idea, not mine.

That’s no different than buying (or worse borrowing) a locomotive just to copy the shell in order to alter it and then sell or give away copies. Sure that’s fine if you’re doing it JUST for yourself, but the second it enters someone else’s hands, you’ve stolen money from the original manufacturer.

Keep up the good work David.

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11 years 9 months ago #13947 by David K. Smith
Replied by David K. Smith on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures

markm wrote: - Does the unit really need to be that small?


Why would you want it any bigger? It's supposed to fit in your hand,m and it's already about 50% bigger than the Snails.

markm wrote: - Could we get this like a Prius plug-in? Run on battery (Alkaline or NiMh), run from wall wart, and recharge the battery if it's rechargable.


A lot of neat features like this could be added to the unit. The problem is that you'd have to start jacking up the price. The idea behind this unit is to make it as simple as it possibly can be so it can be as economical as it can possibly be.

You could just get two rechargeable 9V batteries. Keep one charging while you're using the other, and just swap them as needed.

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11 years 9 months ago #13948 by markm
Replied by markm on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures
Stony,
Actually there are a couple of universal battery charger chips that can deal with Alkaline, NiMh & NiCd and charge or not charge depending on the battery type. I was thinking about adding one to my existing Snail repackage it in a box about 50% larger.

David,
I use three batteries right now (they discharge faster than they recharge and only last a couple of hours), but very quickly the top wears and you're taping it shut.

Mark

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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #13949 by stonysmith
Replied by stonysmith on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures

Zcratchman_Joe wrote: Don't quote me on this but speaking of all of the clones out there... from what I understand, these are all direct rip-offs of Lajos original controller.


No rip-off involved.. David said above: The (single) controller was designed/built by Medvend, and sold thru three US distributors.

This is a new design that not only costs less, but also is capable of driving MANY more locomotives in a single consist.

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11 years 9 months ago #13950 by David K. Smith
Replied by David K. Smith on topic Re: Z New NZT product pictures

markm wrote: Stony,
Actually there are a couple of universal battery charger chips that can deal with Alkaline, NiMh & NiCd and charge or not charge depending on the battery type. I was thinking about adding one to my existing Snail repackage it in a box about 50% larger.

David,
I use three batteries right now (they discharge faster than they recharge and only last a couple of hours), but very quickly the top wears and you're taping it shut.

Mark


My best recommendation, then, is to buy or make a "battery replacer"--that is, a wall wart with a battery clip on the end. Since the throttle is tethered to the layout anyway, it wouldn't matter having another wire attached to it. The batteries are really a matter of convenience, particularly at train shows.

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